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3d - Printworx

Malyan M150 suddenly stops extruding after 2 or 3 layers

Started by nate80, Tuesday,December 19, 2017, 11:54:42

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nate80

I just upgraded the extruder on my Malyan M150 with an all metal part. The kit from Banggood's made up of an alloy body, alloy sprung arm and a new metal toothed gear.  I had to enlarge and partially reshape the lower hole that the filament feeds through as it was in the wrong position for the Malyan M150, but the job was a good'un and the filament now feeds perfectly all the way to the nozzle - straight and true.  I took the opportunity to replace the original Malyan nozzle as well.

With it all back together and after levelling the printed bed I tried printing one of the original test files (a mouse) that came with the Malyan M150.  It's obviously been designed to be easy to print (simple shape, lots of filament being put down, slow print speed etc.) and has always printed flawlessly.  But now it won't print past the second or third layer.  The first layer printed perfectly with great bed adhesion and a flawless looking finish, but when it gets to the second or third layer the filament suddenly stops being extruded.

I tried extruding some PLA by telling the printer to push 10mm through, but nothing came out the nozzle and the teethed gear just ground against the filament.

Here's a photo of the new and original nozzle.  It may be my imagination, but the original Malyan M150 nozzle hole seems slightly larger then the new 0.4mm one.  Malyan says the nozzle for the M150 is 0.4mm though, and thats the diameter setting I've been printing with for many months without any issues.

[attach=1]

I took the extruder assembly apart, replaced the nozzle with a second brand new one and a new piece of PTFE/Teflon tube, I checked for any blockages etc and it all looked perfect.  But when I put it all back together the same problem occurred.

shawdreamer

what Im suspecting given that youve changed out the feeder mechanism and altered the hole is its likely thats were your issue lies,

is the tension on the feeder arm high enough so the feeder gear can grip the filament tight enough

has the re-positioning of the hole caused the filament to run off the side of the feeder gear?

a snapshot or two might might help?

the reason it might not go past the first 2-3 layers on the test part is likely due to the layering setup of the actual part, the first 2-3 layers are generally "solid" layers with no infill and these layers are done at reduced speed, on infill layers the printer is running its maximum print speed and the feeder probably cant grip the filament strong enough to push it along at that speed, once its done a grind on the filament even for a second it literally has no chance of pushing it any longer.
Geeetech Prusa i3 pro-B (ABS Workhorse)
Pultur Prusa (my own design)
Poltur XL (my own "MUST BE BIGGER" design)
Poltur XL v.2 (my own "MUST BE BIGGER STILL, MUST USE EXTRUSION" design)
https://www.thingiverse.com/shawdreamer/designs

nate80

Cheers mate.  I plan on changing the feeder mechanism back to standard this evening to see if that does eradicate the issue.  I'll take some snaps of the setup when I do.

At first I only suspected the parts I'd swapped, but I've had the machine apart 3 times now and I can't see anything wrong with it.  You can actually see through to the filament and all the inner working from the outside (just about) if you peer through the extruder spring with a torch, and it looks fine.  Against my expectations when I took it apart the toothed feed gear wasn't a mess with loads of chewed up filament either.  There was only a very, very small amount of dust with fairly light score lines in the PLA.

I tried swapping out the PTFE tube for a new piece and changed the nozzle 3 times.  The only nozzle I've not tried again is the original one because, oddly, it doesn't want to go back in the heater block.  It's like the thread is just ever so slightly too tight/out of phase.  When I first removed the original nozzle I remember it being incredibly hard to budge and then tight all the way until it finally came off.  The newer nozzles go on far easier, but they aren't leaking filament at the nozzle thread.

I don't think it's the grip of the feeder gear on the filament but I'll double check it.  The filament is going straight down through the feeder tube (the metal tube above the heater block) without any bend or curve, and it goes straight down across the middle of the feeder gear, so it's not that.

The mouse test print made it past the first two solid layers the first time and started choking on the third infill layer.  The next time (after I'd taken it all to pieces, changed the nozzle for a new one again and checked everything) it didn't even complete the solid layer 2.  It stopped extruding half way through one of the lines.

It's frustrating as there's nothing I can pinpoint as being the issue and I offered to print something for somebody for Christmas, so having it out of action is an issue.  I'll take a look tonight and photograph my findings.

Gaza07

Ive been having similar problems with my new printer and I found that retraction and temprature were causing problems the temps on the new printer arent the same as I'm used to and the new nimble extruder doesnt like to much retraction, it would stop exturding because the feed wheel would grind into the filament and cut a groove leaving nothing to drive the filament with what was most annoying was it would only happen at random and normally near the end of a print rather than the start,
Ive cranked the temp up some more and lowered the retraction to the recommended amount and hopefully my problem is solved, unless it gets near the end of this one and scraps another  :frantic: :frantic: :frantic: :frantic:

my cheapo little anycubic didnt seem to care what the settings were and just kept churning out the prints  :rolleyes:
Custom built delta with Flex3Drive Gen 4 / Duet Electronics 330mm build area
Custom built delta with Flex3Drive Gen 4 / Duet Electronics 180mm build area
AnyCubic 4max XY printer 210x210x300 build area
AnyCubic Kossel Mini 180x180x300 build area
Geetech A10M Dual Colour 220x220x260 build area
Kelant Orbeat D100 DLP/SLA

Multi-Rotor UK  YouTube  Thingiverse  3d-Printworx

nate80

Cheers Gaza.  Unfortunately, after doing some more investigation, I don't think it's temp, grip or mechacially related.

So I did some tests and took some photos of the all metal feeder setup before swapping it back for the original plastic parts.  I couldn't see anything obviously wrong with the all metal setup.  The filament was being gripped correctly and there were no blockages anywhere but, again, the nozzle would stop extruding half way through the second layer.

After swapping back to the original plastic parts I ran it again and.. same issue.  So I tried printing some other files and found the fault is actually that the printer just stops extruding after a certain amount of time?!?  It doesn't matter what I print, after a minute or two the filament just stops being extruded.  If I manually push the filament through it comes out the nozzle no problems at all and as easy as anything.  If I tell the printer (via its control panel) to extrude the filament nothing happens.  But as soon as I turn the printer off and on again it will extrude after being instructed via the printers control panel?!?

So it basically has suddenly decided to only print for a set number of time (I haven't timed it but I'd guess 90-120 seconds) and then carries on moving the X,Y,Z axis' but stops extruding filament.

Totally baffled.   :shrug:   

I didn't see the point in sharing the photos I took of the metal feeder assembly as it seems that isn't anything to do with the issue.  The only thing I can think of that may have caused this issue is that I connected the Malyan M150 to my laptop for the first time and tried Repetier Host.  I did this right after installing the metal feeder and right before this issue started.  But I didn't do anything other than go through the setup wizard for repeater host, try turning the fans and heated bed on from the laptop and moved the X,Y,Z axis using the Repetier Host software.

I've never come across this problem before.   :(   All I can think of is resetting the Malyan back to factory settings and seeing if that fixes it, but there's no option for that in the control panel and I don't know how to do it.

nate80

Oh yeah, and I stuck a small piece of masking tape (as a visual aid) loosely to the PLA filament in line with the top of the printers frame and when the printer stops extruding its obvious that the filament isn't being ingested at all.  It stops moving altogether and I can't feel any sort of vibration of the stepper motor turning or the toothed feed gear turning and clicking etc.  It's like the extruder stepper motor just suddenly stops turning.

Would it damage the machine if I removed the heat sink and fan from the side of the feeder and ran the printer so I could see exactly what's going on?  It'd mean the feeder mechanism would be without fitted cooling for 5 minutes.  I could run an external fan and point it at it!?

Gaza07

Well it looks like my problem was the max rate was a little to high and trying to cram it through the nozzle to fast slowed it down a bit and managed to finish the print thats been alluding me and filling the bin  :rolleyes:  ~~
Custom built delta with Flex3Drive Gen 4 / Duet Electronics 330mm build area
Custom built delta with Flex3Drive Gen 4 / Duet Electronics 180mm build area
AnyCubic 4max XY printer 210x210x300 build area
AnyCubic Kossel Mini 180x180x300 build area
Geetech A10M Dual Colour 220x220x260 build area
Kelant Orbeat D100 DLP/SLA

Multi-Rotor UK  YouTube  Thingiverse  3d-Printworx

nate80

Cool  :cool:  Glad you got your issue resolved Gaza.

For my issue, I did a little research and learned that the heat sink and fan are on the side to draw heat from the upper cooling block to stop it reaching the extrusion feed area.  So I removed them and rigged up a small heatsink so I could run another test print whilst watching the inside of the extruder.

I drew a black dot on the extruder feed gear so it was easy to see it rotating.  And it turns out the Malyan M150 has developed a weird fault where it will print for a few minutes before the extruder stepper motor suddenly stops moving altogether.

I'm not sure if it's related as before this issue started I never tried instructing the extruder stepper motor to turn when the printer was cold, but when I tried to rotate the extruder motor before the Malyan M150 heated up to print temp the motor didn't move at all.  As soon as the printer reached printing temp the stepper motor kicked in and performed all the movement instructions I'd fed it when it was cold.  Once it had finished it then responded fine to all new instructions I gave it with the jog wheel.

Anyway, here's the video of the issue:

https://youtu.be/cG-V37m1FWo

The extruder stepper motor stops turning at 4 minutes and 7 seconds.  The same print fails at the same stage every time.

I just don't get it.  What on earth could of caused this to happen?  :shrug:

By the way, that loud bang in the vid just after the extruder stepper motor stops rotating is the cat bolting through the cat flap!  It's not the printer breaking and making a dying noise!   :laugh:

nate80

Quick addition to last post:

I've now tested the printer with zero filament loaded, just incase, and it behave exactly the same.  The extruder stepper motor stops at the same point when printing the test mouse.  It's approx. half way through the second layer of the print.

I then tested the printer (again, no filament loaded) using a 12mm diameter spiral tube I printed in the past and the extruder stepper motor stoped rotating at 1 minute 30 seconds - at the very end of the second layer of the print.

Once the extruder stepper motor stopped rotating I tried pausing the print to see if it would start rotating again when I restarted the print, but it didn't.  Once it's stopped rotating it looks like that's it.

I'd guess it's a software fault, but hopefully one that can be fixed?!  I don't really know what to do next.  Any ideas please guys?

shawdreamer

I suspect that if it was software a failsafe would kick in, plus the print design is a previous proven one.

have you updated the firmware recently?

If you have a laser thermometer handy it might also be worth checking the temp of the heatsink on the extruder stepper motor driver on your main board cos to me that looks like a total cut off on the motor.
Geeetech Prusa i3 pro-B (ABS Workhorse)
Pultur Prusa (my own design)
Poltur XL (my own "MUST BE BIGGER" design)
Poltur XL v.2 (my own "MUST BE BIGGER STILL, MUST USE EXTRUSION" design)
https://www.thingiverse.com/shawdreamer/designs

nate80

Yeah, I think so too.  I haven't ever updated or touched the firmware but, as I mentioned above, I did connect the Malyan to my laptop and Repetier Host for the very first time just before this issue started.  All I did was go through the setup wizard though and I don't believe I entered any information that could have caused this issue.

If I update the firmware (I believe there's a newer Marlin version available) will it reset all the printers settings and so, if a glitch has been introduced, would it repair the problem?

Unfortunately I don't have a laser thermometer so, failing a firmware fix, I guess I'm going to have to buy a new PCB.   :-/

malc

have tried doing a dry-run and see if it stops in the same place --- it does everything except extrude?
malc

Doug

Nate  sounds to me like a driver/motor is shutting down prob due to excess heat  have you tried the motor on one of the other channels ie the Z for example (If you make sure the Endstop isn't triggered you should be able to tell it to home that axis to cause the motor to run continuously) also what Board does the malyan use?  can the driver module be swapped out.

Doug

shawdreamer

Quote from: Doug on Thursday,December 21, 2017, 07:51:14
Nate  sounds to me like a driver/motor is shutting down prob due to excess heat  have you tried the motor on one of the other channels ie the Z for example (If you make sure the Endstop isn't triggered you should be able to tell it to home that axis to cause the motor to run continuously) also what Board does the malyan use?  can the driver module be swapped out.

Doug


iirc the m150 has a aio type board (looks like a melzi variant) so he wont be able to swap drivers out if its a overheat shutdown :cry.

on the bright side.......... upgrade time if its the board ::)......... the downside..........cost :embarrassed
Geeetech Prusa i3 pro-B (ABS Workhorse)
Pultur Prusa (my own design)
Poltur XL (my own "MUST BE BIGGER" design)
Poltur XL v.2 (my own "MUST BE BIGGER STILL, MUST USE EXTRUSION" design)
https://www.thingiverse.com/shawdreamer/designs

Doug

I Suspected it may be a melzi (And they are very expensive as they are not popular and most are old stock)  but a Ramps would be suitable for it cos IIRC It is a rebadge of a Wanhao I3 Clone.

A Pic of it may help as well